This is the transcript of a session recorded at PI Apparel in Los Angeles in 2023, in which Jo Andrews, the VP of Global Apparel & Headwear at Skechers, shares her perspective on the mechanisms to enhance creative leadership. You can watch the full session here.
Hi. Good morning, everyone. As they introduce me, my name is Joe Andrews. It’s such a pleasure to be here with you today. Honestly, this is speaking about a subject matter that I am most passionate about.
I’m obviously managing and working with creative teams. I couldn’t think of a subject matter that’s more important at a product innovation conference than how you effectively work with your creative teams, because we all know creativity is the foundation of building the best, most innovative product that we possibly can. Okay, so what does it mean? What is a creative culture?
How do we foster this? For me, when I think about creativity and creative culture, it’s the art of nurturing an inclusive culture that amplifies the team’s creative voice. So really think about this for a minute. How do you, as a member of a team or as a manager of a team, work with your team to create the space, to create the environment where it’s caring and supportive so that those that are creative on your team, whether you’re talking about marketing, apparel designers, graphic designers, I think even sometimes engineers have to have a creative thought process as well.
When you’re thinking about how you foster that culture, that’s really going to be what’s going to create the most effective working teams together. So a lot of people ask me, How do we do this right? How do we start to really build a culture that starts to nurture more of that creativity, collaboration? Well, before I get into the how, I really think about what makes the best type of working team.
And I do feel that the best working teams, they operate like water. I am from the East Coast, so you might hear a little bit of an accent come out when I say that. And the reason why I say that they operate like water is water can break out into streams, individual paths. They come together again to be a larger collective group.
When you think about a storm, water can weather a storm. Great teams in the face of a challenge can rally up to that and water is the foundation to life. So when you think about as an organization, you should know. And you know, when we think about teams, really how they move, how they can adapt, how they support each other, that fluidity that they have really starts to again, build that great product, collaboration, innovative product.
Now I feel that there’s really three elements when it comes to working together as a collaborative team that help to build upon this. One of these is healthy communication. There’s a great quote up there by Jeff Brown. I’m not going to read you the quote, but what I will say is what you say matters how you say it even more really encouraging teams to listen to one another and show gratitude.
I feel that that healthy communication path is everything. I’m going to give you an example. I didn’t tell you too much about my journey of how I arrived to the position that I’m in at Skechers or throughout my career. But I grew up as a designer. That was my foundation. I went to art school for design and then I got my masters in merchandizing.
So I started off really managing is all creative teams and the journey led me into working through more of an analytical path, of working with merchants supply chain for sourcing. There is a lot of Excel definitely took me a while to kind of balance out the creative thought process and the analytical. So one of the things that I found very early on in my career, I was a designer at this point in time, and when you’re a designer, you work with your merchandizers or your product managers.
They give you a line plan and they say, Okay, designer, here you go, This is what we need. Please go and create. You have two weeks. Great. I’m super excited. I’m like, I got my line plan. I have about two weeks to go and find my fabrics and design and sketch and do all of these wonderful things. And so I attacked it with full passion.
It’s the day of the presentation and I’m starting to pin everything up. And then the VP’s walk in, VP of Merchandizing, VP of Design. They don’t even look at what I created. They turned around and they’re like, Okay, you guys, we have a new mission. We are dropping everything that we just worked on and instead we’re going to pivot to rally around this, right?
So as a hypothetical, let’s say everything that I built was for Run, and now they’re like, Just kidding. We don’t want to run anymore. Now we’re going to do, you know, cycling. And so they left the meeting and they said, you have one week to execute. So here I am again, young in my career, feeling not valued, feeling that all the work in the passion that I poured into what I was just creating wasn’t even reviewed.
There was no respect, no gratitude, no conversation. The expectation was you’re going to walk out of that meeting and with the same passion and energy, you’re going to create a whole new product line. I can you that for any creative person that doesn’t really work that way, right? So now today, when I think about my teams and working with Merchandizers and working with designers, the path of how you enter a meeting, how you interact and engage in the meeting and how you exit the meeting, all of that healthy communication stream.
This is the most important thing when you enter a meeting being thoughtful, What do you want to get out of the meeting? Right? What are the inputs? What are the expectations that you’re about to ask your team to execute on when you engage in the meeting? And I know all teams are different, right? You have people that are very vocal and then you have people that are a little bit more quiet.
So understanding the dynamics of your team to say when you’re engaging, allowing that space for others to speak, right. Really taking the time to listen to one another and invite the ones that are a little bit more quiet into the conversation, asking those questions that pull them in. And then when you leave the meeting thanking everyone for their time and their effort, don’t get me wrong, sometimes it’s not perfect and there’s still work to be done.
But that gratitude just helps to really foster stronger working team dynamics. The second element that I feel like is really key. So I know this word is like a really hot word empowerment, but empowerment encourages diverse perspectives. If you Google the word empowerment, you’ll end up finding images of like people pushing another person up over a challenge and like, holding hands.
That’s great. I do think that empowerment is collaboration, but I actually feel like empowerment is more space so that space that you create as long as the inputs and outputs are clear of what you’re asking your teammate, give them space to achieve. You don’t have to be right there alongside of them, asking them exactly what they’re doing. Know that as long as everyone has the clarity, the journey is a little bit different.
So I’m going to ask for some participation. Can anyone tell me what two plus two is Hard. Okay, Love that. Thank you. It’s only me up here alone, you know. And can anyone tell me what one plus three is for? Great. There are different ways to get to four. There are different ways to get to your common goal.
The reason why I love this picture is because no line is perfect, right? There’s movement in there. The path, the journey is different and the beauty ends up being in what you create together or the diversity in perspective. That empowerment, giving people space creates that nurturing environment so that people can achieve in their own way. And over time, that collaboration and that loop.
What it actually ends up bringing is a team that really trusts each other and respects one another. When I was at I’ll give you an example, when I was at Eddie Bauer, I worked on First Ascent, which is a more innovative pinnacle product assortment, and I managed a designer. It was like my first day there. He came into my office and he’s like, Hey, Joe, I just have to tell you how I work.
I said, Okay, I’m ready. And he’s like, Here’s the thing. When it’s this is about ten years ago also, this is way before people were really working from home. So he comes into my office and he says, how I work is during a design season or when I feel like I need to be at my creative best. You’re not going to see me.
I’m not going to be in the office I might not show up for a week. I might not necessarily tell you how long I’m not going to show up for. But I promise you that on the date that things are due when I come into the office, it’s going to be the best work that you’ve ever seen. The first year that I worked with him, he won 12 product awards for one product in the outdoor industry in one year, which is huge.
And that was all through knowing that he told me what he needed. We were able to create that space for him, which made him feel like as a team, as a whole creative team. We trusted what he had to say and what, you know, his word really, and respected his process. So the more that you have that healthy collaboration, that open dialog, the more that you give the space to your teammates to really feel empowered to achieve.
It creates an environment that allows for trust and respect, and that’s as a whole collaborative unit. Now, what happens if you manage creatives? I feel fortunate that I grew up as a designer, and now that I am working with Merchandizers and other folks on the team that are more analytical and thought process, I can help coach them in how they think about what they’re going to say, how they interact.
Even for myself, I think that self-awareness and that mindfulness into leading creatives. So at the beginning of my career, here we go, there’s slide, there’s the path of what I thought, what I experienced and what I learned. So growing up, you know, I was part of I played in team sports. There was always a coach, there was always a team.
So what did I think that leadership look like? I really authentically thought that leadership was I had that person out in front leading the charge, telling me all the things that I had to do, and I was there behind them, really following their direction and executing upon whatever goal they told me. The goal was not very collaborative. Right?
And then throughout the journey of my what I experienced was a lot of confusion. So I did work for a manager who when they saw something, it influence their direction. So if a garment came in, they would say, no, no, I don’t want to do that, actually, I want to do this other thing. Or they’d go out shopping and say, I just want to, you know, Alo or Lulu or whoever.
And now I want to actually do all of these things or the new colors, blue or whatever it is. So every day it was a cycle of change and change. And you think that you’re on one path when really the path is something else. And honestly, this poor communication, this kind of lack of strategy happened at a lot of different organizations that I worked for, large and small companies.
And so I was personally on the verge of burnout because of that. And then I got promoted and I was super excited and I was like, my gosh, this is wonderful. Now I get to lead a creative. I feel so bad for the first person that I ever manage. I’m still in close contact with her and we talk about this all the time.
What got me promoted is the thing that I needed to be a great manager of people. What got me promoted was the fact that I’m very tenacious and I work really hard and I give it 200%. That’s not I need to be as a manager. It took me a long time to learn. I need to truly deflate the ego.
Once you step into that role of a manager and working with others, it’s no longer about yourself. I tell this to my team every day. Anybody who manages anyone. I have two kids at home, so I equate managing people a lot to parenting you. You’re really influencing someone’s life. It’s very impactful in such a big way, understanding what their goals are.
It’s no longer about you helping mold and shape them into the best version of themselves, kind of clearing the path for them to be able to step into the greatness that you see in them. That’s what it’s truly about. The thing that I learned and it took me a really long time to learn that. And I made a lot of mistakes which I look back and reflect on now.
But, you know, the journey has been one of just continuing to see what’s worked, what hasn’t, and trying to adapt as much as I can. So what I’ve learned, I’ve worked both in the outdoor industry and in activewear and I’ve done mountaineering in my past. One of the things not now with my little kids to put that aside, but one of the things that I learned through my mountaineering experiences is the beauty of a guide.
The guide and this is this really goes back also to service leadership. The guide is behind there at the back there, understanding what the team needs. They’re giving you the space, the tools that you need for you to be able to move forward and achieve in your career. I like this picture of like the guy trying to balance with a thread.
You know, I think about this when it comes to obviously thread and fibers. As a team, we’re stronger together as leader. You have to really be able to work with your team to extract the best out of them that you possibly can. But it’s no longer about use. That first slide that I showed you where somebody was out in front.
It’s definitely at least for how I work with my team. It’s definitely not about that. The more alignment that we find as a collective group, the more that we’re going to be able to achieve harmoniously. So there’s a few things that we to do as a team to make sure that we’re all in alignment. And I kind of I’m going to leave two things with you guys just in case This is something that, you know, you feel like be relevant for your team.
We like to do team agreements. This is a great thing to partner with your h.r. Team to ask kind of the how to and they can help you. So the team agreements is our contract. As a team, we all get into a room and we talk about what do we want to stand for as a team. What’s important to us is we want respect.
Is it? We want open dialog. What what are the things that we value the most? And everybody engages in that and together we align on that. And then once we exit that and we have our team contract, that’s a pretty visual because there’s a lot of designers that work on it. But once we have that, that gets pinned up around the office and it’s the reminder for everyone that we’re accountable for our own culture, we’re accountable for fostering that creative culture as a team, protecting it and continuing to feed it with positivity, to make sure that we keep growing together.
Another great exercise. If you guys have time with your team that I would encourage. I didn’t put a slide up here for it. It’s called a a life roadmap. Basically, everybody has a piece of paper and you give everyone about 10 minutes and they draw out the story of their life they put little pictures and they put the road and then you go around the room for about 5 minutes and everyone shares their journey from when they were to where they are now.
And it’s as personal as you want to make it or not. The beauty of it is in the beginning, you know, if you’re going through change management, if you have new members on the team, right, restructuring, anything like that, what it does is it allows you the opportunity to get to know your teammates on a different level. It builds a level of empathy together and really understanding.
So then after that, you just feel more united as a team. It’s a great exercise. I’ve done it at a few different companies and it’s always been something that the team leaves and they’re like, my gosh, this was amazing. And they talk about it forever. And with that I leave it open to if anybody has any questions, should be some.
I don’t. I just see my slide. okay. How do you balance personal strengths? there it is. Okay. How you balance personal strengths and ambitions with a creative team? Well, that’s a that’s a good one. Personal strengths. I know that when I’m working with a team, I know that I’m not perfect and I definitely, you know, don’t have all of the strengths that I would want to have.
So when I’m hiring, one of the things that I’m looking for is somebody, you know, or individuals that bring to the table the strengths that I know that are my maybe weak spots or blind spots to help strengthen the whole team. And I just give people space in what I what I found is when you give people the challenge, even if I do feel like, that’s a personal strength of mine, when you give people the space, that’s actually what I feel has helped me the most in my career to be able to see them achieve.
And then you’re just kind of you’re coaching them along the way.
How do you manage team members that resists change during process improvement? yeah, this one is huge. This happens all the time. So I find that we bring people in is really what we do. We bring them into the conversation and really making sure that we’re explaining all the different reasons to why building the contacts.
But as long as people feel like they had a voice, right, that they’re part of the greater cause and that they were able to also kind of put their imprint on it, It builds buy in, and the more buy in that you have as a collective group, then people are going to work through it together as opposed to, you know, it feeling.
But as long as people feel like they had a voice, right, that they’re part of the greater cause and that they were able to also kind of put their imprint on it, It builds buy in, and the more buy in that you have as a collective group, then people are going to work through it together as opposed to, you know, it feeling. Because sometimes what ends up happening and it feels like one team against the other, that I would also just add to that just talking in person, email’s not great. I, you know, my team, we work in a big office space and I tell people, just if you’ve gone to emails back and forth, please stand up and go and talk to the person because things get lost in context.
Okay? How do you re how do you re-energize a team that has multiple stressors? My team is through food. You know, like we all we have a common area and there’s constant food. I think showing team appreciation I know some of this stuff sounds maybe a little bit soft and and fluffy and might not necessarily be like a task that the team is trying to get to, but you have to build the team culture. So for example, I have a master birthday calendar and I make sure that for every single birthday that they’re celebrated balloons, card, whatever it is. But that personal touch goes a really long way after we come out of hard, I send people like a thank you note in the evening, if especially if I know that somebody worked really hard or was stressed out or something like that.
And then, like I said, the food we do random like bagels in the morning or chocolates or whatever it is, but how you make people feel valued if they’re feeling that kind of value and appreciation as part of the greater team, then regardless of the challenge, they’re going to be bought in because you’re bringing them into the challenge and then you rally together. That’s that’s how we navigate that. How do you adapt your leadership style in a corporate culture that values leaders being the smartest person in the room but not true leadership? Yeah, I think that great organizations understand diversity in leadership style builds the best leadership team so everyone can’t be cookie cutter. That just that doesn’t work, right? So working with your manager and being able to communicate to them what your leadership style is and what your goals are with your leadership style, as long as you’re being effective for the greater good of the organization and what those goals are, then I can’t imagine a situation where as long as you’re being transparent and open, that that’s not being embraced. Are there any newsletters or books? So many. So I do a lot of podcasts is what I tend to, and I don’t know if there’s a place where maybe I can I can share some podcast links, but I send a weekly podcast out to my team. So talking about like engagement, I send them a weekly podcast, even if it’s 5 minutes sometimes on my drive to work, I listen to like those motivational speaker speeches where people like, yell at you, you can do it, and I send that to my team and they’re like, Wojo kind of intense.
But there’s there’s a lot of there’s a lot of different paths to that. There’s a lot of support groups also as a leader, support in the sense of like helping you get to the next level. So for example, if you if you are leader one of the things that I’ve done is I’ve worked with there’s a Skip Yell Leadership Foundation, which is more specific to the outdoor industry, but it’s a six month leadership program. I’m part of chief right now, which is which is for female executives. And it helps you have a sounding board for how you lead and how you show up. So there’s definitely a lot of things out there that you can do. But one of the things that I tell also my team is as much as you’re investing in other people’s growth on your team and investing in their career, you have to continue to invest on your own self and knowledge, right?
You have to keep fueling yourself and asking what else could you be doing right? What resources, what organizations, anything like that that you can also be a part of? How do you like your team to communicate their concerns and feelings about undervalued? Okay, so the team jokes in my office is like a therapist’s office, which I think is, you know, good and bad. I think it’s good because that means that we build that open level of trust where they can come to me if something, you know, if they’re feeling like maybe my interaction wasn’t so great, I don’t always show up perfect. I apologize people all the time. That’s just the truth, right? Sometimes I leave a meeting and I’m like, Man, I wish I hadn’t framed that up in that way.
Or maybe I didn’t explain something in the right way. So definitely, at least on my team, people just come in and we just talk about it because what I tell my team is, yes, product is super important. If you work for Skechers, product is number one. But people on the team are everything. The humanity that you bring into work every day. To me, there’s nothing as a leader. There’s nothing more important that than the interaction that you have with your team and the people on it. So I think because my team knows that about me, they always feel super open when working with me. Okay, to talk, this is an answer. Okay. Okay. Thank you for keeping me on track.
Have you been able to maintain the same collaboration in your team? We’ve never gone remote, so we literally have been in the office every day. So yes, we have been able to maintain that. I do have someone on my team that does remote and so with her we have conference calls. We fly her in so that she can be because she works on the other side of the country. So she can be part of, you know, just the the camaraderie that we’re building. But we also do a lot of events. And I’m not sure if you guys are working remote. We do a lot of off sites. We feel very fortunate to work in Manhattan Beach, right in downtown Manhattan Beach. And there is a this is not sponsored by Skechers.
Right. This is just something that we do as a team. They’re volleyball nets. So in the summertime, we challenge footwear teams to come and compete with us on volleyball games, which is super fun. And now we’re going to start challenging them in like a healthy, fun way to pickleball tournaments because we are sponsoring pickleball. So we just look for other ways to be able to continue engaging and kind of building that camaraderie together.
Okay. How do you approach bridging the leadership communication barriers that often exist between creatives and Excel types in merch? yeah, definitely not easy to do that, but I ask a lot of people to try and empathize and put put themselves in their counterparts shoes. So before we walk into a meeting. So for example, I’ll work with my merchandizing team. We just had, we actually just had a color palette review with a design team yesterday and I met with the merchandizing team before we went into that color meeting so that the merchants didn’t walk in there and go like, I hate that pink, right, because that doesn’t feel good. And we talked about what they’re about to see, you know, trying to hold back a little bit.
And then thinking about how they want to frame up the the feedback. Right. So it is a lot of day to day coaching is really what it boils down to. Like I said earlier, you don’t always arrive perfect and that’s okay. When we don’t arrive perfect, then I or somebody else on my team will pull someone to the side and kind of talk to them, right? Their manager will talk to them like, Hey, this is what happened, this is what I saw. How do you feel about the interaction? And then the team is so big on the feedback and the open loop of communication that then they will go and speak to the designer, the creative, and explain, you know, hey, I know that I didn’t show up in the best way or maybe I was too overbearing, you know, not necessarily that it has to lead to a straight up apology, but I think the acknowledgment that maybe they overstepped or something like that, that happens almost daily at work.
Okay. How have you seen the support and training for women of color and people of color differ and improve throughout your leadership? this one might make me cry. I had someone on my team actually at Skechers come to me and maybe outside of the specific question of color, but somebody came to me and we were talking about their performance and they were still new to the organization. And I shared with them like just giving them open feedback. You know, you’re doing a great job. Here’s some opportunity, but I see that your future could be this really believe in you kind of all the things. And they started to cry and I was like, my gosh, did I say wrong? I was so, you know, nervous that I said something wrong because that happens.
And they’re like, No, I’ve never had someone tell me in my whole career. They work for a lot different L.A. Brands. In my whole career, I’ve never had someone tell me that they believe in me. And they were also, you know, a person of color and I’m a person of color. So just that, that empowerment of being able to share with someone that you see, then you see their potential what they could be.
You acknowledge that there might be some work behind that, and that’s okay. But that encouragement, to me, that’s kind of the difference maker in I think my leadership style builds, confidence, confidence that people can try and test and fail and excel and all of those things are okay because we’re a safety net, right? We’re here for one another to just help continue growing our mission of Skechers apparel together.
Okay, I think that’s it. Thank you so much, everybody, for the time for sharing.
