PI Apparel has been lucky enough to know Isaac Korn for coming on 7 years. Not only is he a respected industry expert but is also just a genuinely good and nice person who never thinks twice to dedicate time and effort to the industry-wide digital cause. When I was compiling my wish list for Seamless, Isaac was an immediate given. I hope you, our readers, enjoy his insights and wisdom as much as we do.
Welcome to Seamless! Let’s start simple: who is Isaac Korn and what has been your professional journey to date?
Hi Michael and thanks for having me! Well, I’m Isaac and I am the Senior Director of Innovation at Perry Ellis International, where I have worked for almost a decade.
Growing up, my family owned a manufacturing company in Colombia and so I spent many summers gaining hands-on Fashion experience, from packing t-shirts to understanding the intricacies of the production process. When I moved to the US, I continued to pursue this interest; I initially worked at Zumba Fitness, where I served as the Director of Sourcing for almost five years, overseeing Sourcing strategy and Supply Chain Management, before transitioning to Perry Ellis. I began as a Sourcing Director, moved onto a short stint in Merchandising and was then tasked with spearheading the creation of the Innovation Department.
The Innovation role encompasses digital product creation, but also the integration of new technologies in general into our processes. One of the more significant initiatives to date has been the implementation of 3D technology, which has completely revolutionised our approach to product development. But we have also explored various other areas too; the onset of COVID prompted a heightened focus on emerging technologies, such as the Metaverse, Blockchain, and Cryptocurrencies. We actively engaged in research and proof-of-concept projects to understand their potential impact on the fashion industry.
Currently, AI is of course also a focal point for us. Whilst not new, the advent of generative AI has presented exciting possibilities and we believe it will enhance rather than replace human roles, empowering us with smarter insights and decision-making capabilities.
That’s me in a nutshell – I’ve always been passionate about innovation and driving change with technology, as well as tackling the hurdles that inevitably crop up along the way!
Some big topics there for us to explore! Let’s start with 3D: can you share a little more as to how 3D has been adopted at Perry Ellis?
Of course! Well let’s see…our 3D journey kicked off in 2017, so well before the onset of the COVID. At the core of our initiative was the desire to expedite our approval processes and streamline our product development lifecycle. We initially focused on how we could leverage 3D to accelerate our fit approval procedures; the ability to create digital prototypes allowed us to significantly reduce the time required for approval, laying the groundwork for further exploration into the capabilities of 3D technology.
And as we delved deeper, we soon realised its potential went beyond fit approval. The incredibly realistic imagery produced by our 3D models sparked an idea: could we leverage these digital assets to minimise our reliance on physical samples? This led to a pivotal shift in our approach and we began exploring ways to utilise 3D not only for internal approvals but also as a tool for showcasing our collections to buyers.
We started this journey with one 3D software provider who will remain unnamed; for one reason or another, which I won’t bore you with, that relationship didn’t pan out quite as expected. But we then transitioned to Browzwear which allowed us to onboard our Design teams more seamlessly, which in turn allowed for a much smoother integration overall across design, catalogue presentation and marketing collateral generation of our assets.
Today, approximately 90% of our brands are actively engaged in designing in 3D from scratch; our digital catalogues feature immersive 3D imagery, offering buyers a comprehensive view of our collections; and we are exploring the potential of utilising 3D assets to replace traditional product photography, which we hope will further optimise our processes and reduce our carbon footprint.
It’s of course not all been easy! Our journey with 3D has not been without its challenges from the initial proof of concept to the expansion across brands and categories. But it is safe to say that what began as a quest for faster approvals has evolved into a much more comprehensive strategy to leverage technology for sustainable innovation and operational excellence.
Let’s pause there, because our community is always fascinated more so by the challenges than the wins. What were some of the main challenges that you faced on this journey, and how did you tackle them?
Well, one of the main hurdles we faced was dispelling the misconception that the 3D process is inherently faster than traditional 2D design methods. While it’s true that sketching in software like Illustrator can be rapid, transitioning to designing for a 3D world presents its own set of complexities.
The fundamental challenge lies in designing garments in 2D for a 3D environment; Designers must create digital representations of garments without the immediate feedback of physical prototypes. To tackle this, we reframed the conversation with our design teams: instead of focusing solely on the speed of the front-end design process, we emphasised the broader benefits of 3D design. By leveraging true patterns, digital fabrics, and lifelike avatars, Designers can gain valuable insights upfront that ultimately streamline their entire process. Overall, while yes, designing in 3D may take slightly longer, the quality of decision-making improves, leading to overall time savings and process optimization.
The other challenge we faced was securing upfront and ongoing buy-in from management which we knew would be crucial to overcoming company-wide resistance to change. It required many conversations, presentations and transparent storytelling, but luckily this wasn’t too difficult. Perry Ellis has long championed a culture of innovation and once management were walked through the opportunity, they began actively supporting and advocating for the adoption of 3D which in turn fostered a culture where experimentation and innovation are encouraged rather than resisted.
So overall, it was very much a people problem, a challenge I think most organisations that have embarked, or are embarking, on this journey, face. The solution is proactive communication, reframing perceptions, being upfront and honest and ensuring strong leadership support.
How was it received by your vendors and manufacturing partners, and has their perspective changed with time?
Initially, there was some resistance and backlash from our vendors and manufacturing partners. Understandably, this was perceived as a significant investment for them, and they were hesitant to fully embrace the transition. Recognising the need for a collaborative and hand-holding approach, we established a dedicated 3D team based in Asia to facilitate the transition for our vendors. This team played a crucial role in accelerating processes, creating libraries, and providing the necessary expertise to ensure a smooth integration of 3D technology into our supply chain.
At the outset, it was clear that many of our vendors were simply not yet equipped to handle 3D requests, so we had to take the lead in initiating the necessary transformations. But I must say that as the landscape has evolved and other companies began adopting 3D, vendors really had no choice but to rise up to meet these new demands. COVID also played a role in further accelerating this as remote collaboration and virtual approvals became essential. The silver lining of the pandemic was that it underscored the value of 3D in streamlining processes and reducing the need for physical samples and I’m happy to say that today most vendors out there have developed some level of internal 3D capability.
That being said, one challenge does still persist and that concerns the lack of interoperability between different 3D systems. Many companies, including ours, have encountered difficulties when attempting to align our systems with those of our vendors. We have had to establish parallel teams to assist vendors and find innovative solutions to ensure continued progress in our 3D adoption journey.
So yes, at first it was rough but because of our efforts and external influences, I’m happy to say that perspectives have changed on the whole and there is now greater acceptance and integration amongst our vendor network of 3D processes .
Interesting that you mentioned the need for a specific Asia-based team to help facilitate this. I’d be interested to know, over the course of your 7-year journey, how has the size and the capabilities of the global 3D team evolved?
In 2017, we started with a very lean team in terms of both size and skillset, and whilst we have remained relatively lean, our approach has become more specialised and refined over time. One of our key wins has been in the creation of a self-sufficient environment within our design teams. Once designers are on-boarded and equipped with the necessary skills, they can work autonomously within the 3D framework
We’ve divided our 3D expertise into two main groups: Technical Design 3D and Fashion Design 3D. As you no doubt would guess, the Technical Design team focuses on integrating 3D into the technical design process, and this includes: the technical aspects of 3D implementation; proofing designs; building 3D libraries; and facilitating vendor onboarding. This team is led by a central Senior Manager and comprises five members spread across the US and Asia.
The Fashion Design team, on the other hand, currently consists of only two members who are tasked with a broader mandate. Their responsibilities include: the onboarding of over 30 designers across our various brands; supporting the design process; and exploring new technologies within the realm of 3D rendering and simulation. This team plays a crucial role in pushing the boundaries of what is possible with 3D technology, constantly testing and innovating to enhance our capabilities.
So yes, lean but mighty!
Nice! Now I know full well that no tool can do it all; to what extent do you use Browzwear across the full workflow? And how active a role does their team play in your day to day?
Though yes, we recognise that no single tool can fulfil all our needs, our whole mentality has always been to try and stay within one platform and push its boundaries as much as possible. So we actually use Browzwear for mostly everything, from initial modelling and body creation, through to approvals and rendering. We do bolt on other solutions though like Adobe Substance and SEDDI Textura for fabric texturing and rendering to enhance the visual fidelity of our 3D garments, but we are actively working to keep the tech ecosystem small and tight.
This is the easiest way, in our opinion, to streamline and easily scale the process and whilst it has come with challenges, all in all this decision has worked well for us so far.
In terms of our partnership, Browzwear has been invaluable throughout our journey. We maintain regular communication with them on a weekly basis, ensuring that our needs and requests are heard and our feedback is addressed promptly. And they provide us with key insights and support, assisting us whenever we encounter challenges or have questions about the software.
I cannot stress this enough: having a software provider that acts as a true partner is essential for success. They possess in-depth knowledge of their solution and understand our processes, allowing them to guide us effectively. This combination of expertise ensures that we receive the support we need to navigate any challenges and optimise our use of the software.
Absolutely! Now, you have mentioned to me in previous conversations that you’re trying to dig deeper with 3D and extend what you have; what does this look like in practice and again, have you encountered any challenges?
“Digging deeper” involves pushing the boundaries of what’s achievable with our technology and extending it into various aspects of our workflow.
One of our primary goals, which is still in the testing phase, is to utilise our 3D assets to sell products online more effectively. We aim to create highly realistic product images that provide customers with an accurate representation of our offerings, ultimately enabling them to make informed purchase decisions without feeling misled.
And this initiative isn’t just about cost savings but about process enhancement and efficiency gains. By utilising digital assets instead of traditional photography, we can significantly reduce the time and resources required for product presentation which in turn allows for a shorter go-to-market calendar, bringing us closer to real-time design and consumer preferences.
In terms of challenges, there is of course the misalignment of cross-functional teams and the associated friction to buy-in that needs to be addressed. From the very beginning, I pretty much took on the role of the primary 3D presenter within the company and have been engaging with and educating all teams about the solutions we were and are implementing.
A significant aspect of this process was convincing, well more so forever reminding, the teams that it’s the final customer who makes decisions about our products and so testing and gathering data only serves to better understand their preferences and adapt accordingly.
Every time we have had a proposed use case for 3D in a new area or team, we have conducted various tests, analysed the results, and shared them transparently. Positive outcomes indicated areas for further implementation, while of course areas with less favourable results prompted adjustments and improvements.
We facilitate regular internal meetings which provide opportunities to discuss the technology, and we take advantage of these forums to share our findings with all relevant teams. While it may feel like repeating the same presentation multiple times, it’s crucial for everyone to understand the progress and impact of our 3D efforts. Today, discussions about 3D have become a routine part of our conversations which is a significant shift from the initial apprehension we witnessed.
It was crucial not to fear potential backlash but rather to view it as a controlled aspect of testing. This approach allowed us to gather valuable insights without compromising sales and I’m happy to say that so far the feedback has been very positive and encouraging, particularly in the realm of direct-to-consumer initiatives.
On the topic of direct-to-consumer initiatives, have you explored virtual try-on options to aid customers in understanding fit and other related aspects during the buying process?
So we’ve actually conducted tests with one virtual try-on tool online, and the results were very promising. Unfortunately, we’re no longer able to continue using it as the company providing the tool has discontinued it. However, we were pleased with the outcomes and are actively seeking other solutions providers to enable virtual fitting processes.
This makes sense because while many companies are offering virtual fitting solutions, the process isn’t always straightforward.
We’re keen to ensure a frictionless experience, particularly for mass-market consumers. Many existing solutions involve cumbersome steps like scanning or taking photos, which we believe could deter users. For us, providing a seamless virtual try-on experience means enabling customers to achieve results with just a few clicks, avoiding any unnecessary friction in the process.
So, while we’ve already tested virtual fitting with positive results, we’re committed to finding a solution that aligns with our goal of enhancing the customer experience without introducing unnecessary hurdles.
With the ways in which you use 3D having evolved over time, how have you tackled the upskilling need?
Our approach to upskilling has always centred around elevating individuals who are more receptive to these advancements. We identify team members who demonstrate openness and enthusiasm towards 3D and then provide them with opportunities to enhance their skills. Some of these individuals have even gone on to become part of our dedicated 3D or innovation teams.
We have also recognised the importance of having a strong support system in place, especially during the onboarding process. Despite being a lean team, our support personnel are adept at communicating effectively with new team members, speaking the same language and understanding their needs. For instance, our 3D super user in Fashion Design was formerly a Fashion Designer herself which has allowed her to relate to the challenges and concerns of the team and has fostered a more familiar and safe environment for learning.
And then there is the ongoing investment need in hardware that is crucial for ensuring the success of our 3D initiatives. Given the rapid evolution of the technology without adequate hardware support, the workflow can be hindered by slow performance or frequent breakdowns, leading to frustration and inefficiency.
So yes, a two-pronged approach: investing in people and prioritising high-quality hardware to facilitate a seamless and evolving workflow.
Looking back on your 3D journey, is there anything you would have done differently?
There are definitely aspects we should have approached differently. Firstly, as I mentioned earlier, we went with one 3D provider and then had to pivot to another. So over a short period, we had to roll out 3D twice which was incredibly taxing and very nearly derailed the entire transformation. I understand why we made the decision we did given the circumstances at the time, but in hindsight we should have chosen differently.
I also would have handled our rapid adoption of 3D imagery for reducing salesman samples differently. While it did certainly provide a quick return on investment, it placed a considerable burden on the team.; not everyone fully grasped the effort required to create a comprehensive library, and the sudden influx of demands overwhelmed us.
Instead, I wish we’d have started small, focusing on a specific category and understanding the software’s limitations from the outset. Building essential libraries beforehand would have eased the rollout process and minimised stress on the team.
So yes, we should have taken a more controlled approach starting with a single category, creating necessary libraries, and onboarding teams gradually would have been less overwhelming. Celebrating small wins along the way would have boosted morale and maintained momentum without subjecting everyone to undue stress. If I could redo it, I would have prioritised a more methodical rollout strategy, ensuring each step was thoroughly planned and executed before moving on to the next phase.
Quite the deep dive there into 3D, so let’s move on to the buzzword of the moment: AI. What ways have you started experimenting with AI?
We’ve embarked on various experiments in our exploration of AI, albeit some aspects remain confidential. It’s important to understand that AI is a broad spectrum, with generative AI being just a fraction of its scope. Historically, AI has been primarily used for data-driven predictions rather than design applications, but that is now changing with the emergence of generative AI which has made it much more accessible.
That being said, it is still prone to what we call ‘hallucinations’ and by this I mean its inclination to fabricate responses akin to human behaviour. This tendency, while intriguing, needs cautious handling to ensure it remains truthful and reliable. Our internal tests focus on leveraging AI not to replace but to amplify existing skillsets. For instance, AI excels in image generation, prompting us to explore its potential within our design processes, but does not yield the same technical accuracy as 3D does, for example.
Another thing we are actively exploring is the assurance of AI’s ethical and legal compliance. We are prioritising experimenting with tools that have clear training datasets and copyright safeguards to prevent the chances of all and any legal issues. Collaborating with trusted partners like Adobe, seemingly provides us with additional reassurances in navigating this evolving landscape.
So yes, at present our work with AI remains very much experimental.
Our short-term goals are to identify as many successful use cases as possible and to integrate them into our workflows, whilst in the long-term we envision AI as being a sophisticated assistant leveraging extensive data for more informed decision-making. We believe AI will revolutionise aspects of design, particularly in trend analysis and product prediction, and imagine a future where AI synthesises sales data, market trends, and design preferences to propose and even prototype product lines.
We’re excited to see what might unfold!
We are too, as are most of our audience! At the start you also mentioned experimenting with the Metaverse and with web3? What were the drivers behind those initiatives and were you happy with the outcome?
Our exploration of the Metaverse and Web3 involved collaborations within platforms like Decentraland, particularly during events like Metaverse Fashion Week and Pride Month-related activations. I would say that initially it was an exciting venture that generated significant attention and marketing traction. Our intention was always to offer digital wearables for free with the aim of raising awareness rather than to generate revenue.
But, and it’s a big but, the enthusiasm definitely waned over time. Accessibility became a significant hurdle, as many users found the process of navigating digital wallets and currencies daunting. So despite the initial geeky allure, it became evident that widespread adoption would only be possible if it became simpler and more inclusive to our existing web2 crowd.
Don’t get me wrong, certain aspects of web3 are likely here to stay but the key lesson learned was that meaningful interaction and purpose are essential for sustained engagement in virtual environments. Gaming platforms like Fortnite and Roblox, with clear objectives and interactive elements, have demonstrated more enduring appeal.
Looking ahead, we anticipate more of a gradual integration of virtual experiences within the physical world facilitated by advancements in hardware like augmented reality glasses instead. Digital wearables remain promising, especially within platforms where users customise avatars and seek real-world connections.
I think the Metaverse may have arrived too early to be honest, driven partly by the need for buzz during the pandemic. We’re glad we did it when we did, but that is certainly all on hold for the time being until a time when user accessibility and purposeful interaction have improved.
I tend to agree with that perspective. Well Isaac, we are out of time unfortunately so I will end with this: in an ever evolving technology-led landscape, what advice would you give to those students graduating and wanting to enter the Fashion space?
For those aspiring to enter the fashion space, especially in design or technical roles, embracing 3D technology is imperative. It’s no longer an optional skill but a fundamental aspect of the industry’s evolution. 3D is here to stay, with its importance only expected to grow. As 3D software becomes more intuitive and powerful, proficiency in this area opens up numerous opportunities.
Additionally, dipping your toes into the realm of AI can be beneficial. While becoming an AI expert isn’t necessary per se, understanding its applications, potentials, and how it can augment your work can only be to your benefit. Creativity shouldn’t be limited to traditional mediums like paper; exploring how AI can enhance your creative process is equally important.
Always happy to give more advice as needed and we are always on the lookout for interns in our organisation so get in touch if I can be of any further assistance!
Isaac, no doubt we will be seeing you soon at another PI Apparel event! Until then, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us today!
Have any questions or comments? Pop them in the comments section below and we’ll come back to you!